Osama Bin Laden debate

After watching Zeitgeist, I'm a bit skeptical about the whole 9/11 thing.

This morning my mom was logging onto facebook and saw all of the various posts of "God Bless America", and "Wow...shocked", and after turning on the television, we soon found out.

I was seven years old when 9/11 took place. My memories are fragmented, though I remember being in school and having the principal sit us in a circle and try to explain the seriousness of the situation. I also remember going home and watching the continuous footage of the twin towers falling with my mother.

Initially when I had heard of bin Laden's death, I was relieved, though I could not say why. Probably because that was my mother's reaction.

I am glad that we no longer have to worry about bin Laden. This is fact. And I also believe that he deserved the fate he got.

But involving this incident, I have been continuously thinking of how when I die, I don't want people to celebrate my death. It just makes me think about the good things that everyone should acheive in life, and not killing hundreds of people would help that. lol

-LunaSunset

I basically agree with what LunaSunset said. I don't remember how young I was, but young enough for everything to be pretty foggy. It was the first day of gymnastics class, and I remember my mum suting me up, getting me ready to go, making sure I was properly dressed, watching the news, and suddenly stopping. She said that the class has been canceled, but my little brother and I could have lunch in our rooms and we couldn't come out into the living room unless she said so. She tried to shield us from the whole thing. It was only recently that I found out my aunt had been in DC at the time, and she'd spent a good chunk of the day trying to get in touch with her.

December.

In discussions like these, I'm always the one accused of "letting the terrorists win." So be it; I refuse to be a nationalist.

Bin Laden, of course, was a lunatic. You'll find me - a self-declared pacifist - the last one to defend him. Even though I'm anti-death penalty, I don't believe there could have been any other end to this situation: the soldiers who took him out were in a life-or-death battle. It was kill or be killed. 

But the footage of Americans dancing in the streets, the maudlin interviews with 9/11 widows, the patriotic music and the litany of "God Bless America", as though this were somehow supernaturally ordained - this makes me think the "ugly American" stereotype isn't so far off. It's okay to be relieved bin Laden's gone. It's okay to think he deserved what he got. But his death was not some mandate from above, some affirmation that we're on the winning team. It's not some zero-sum game in which we've just chalked one up for the 'Muricans. It was a military mission that succeeded. Period. And I cringe because I know it will, for some, become just more ammunition in the nationalistic battle between Americans and everybody else. If those die-hards could muster up half the passion and the drive and the street-dancing fervor over say, the plight of Iraqi or Afghan civilians, then I'd be impressed.

 Regarding the matter of Osama bin Laden: I'm not glad he's dead. I'm glad he is not a threat anymore, and I realize that there was no choice but to kill him; but I'm not glad he's dead, because I mourn for the loss of any life, and I'm not pleased with the way people are reacting, as so eloquently stated by Nonnie.

He was not a nice guy. (That is, to put this in perspective for those of you who don't know me personally, about the worst insult I ever give.) He was a threat to a lot of people, & I'm glad he's not a threat anymore. Maybe he deserved to die– I don't think I could put that judgment upon anyone, personally, but maybe he did. But that doesn't mean I'm going to celebrate it– he was still a person, and a person's life has still been lost.

That's just my two cents.

would it be shortly before midnight on may first or shortly before midnight on may second?

Hi,

This was posted on Facebook, so it's hard to know the background of the person writing it, but it is a valid point of view expressed clearly. http://www.facebook.com/notes/sara-khorshid/my-article-on-alarabiyanet-w...

gg

Any one who honestly believes september 11th didnt happen needs to wake up. that is a day that will forever effect the lives of thousands of americans. I am proud of what our navy seals did, and id like to give the guy who pulled the trigger a huge high five. Awesome job boys, we got him.

There has been a lot of talk about Osama bin Laden's death in my classes at UVM. Most everyone I've talked to seems to be in agreement that, while his death was necessary, it should not be celebrated in the streets like the post-Superbowl celebrations.

One interesting debate that a classmate of mine had with one of her room mates was how bin Laden's body should have been disposed of. According to reports, his body was cast off into the ocean with the intention of preventing bin Laden's followers from erecting a shrine where he was buried, or visiting his grave site. The reasoning was that if his followers were allowed to congregate at his grave, the extremist ideals would be further strengthened, not diminshed, by his death.

The debate was: should a man who twisted the ideals of his faith into violent extremism be buried according to the religious traditions that he helped to corrupt? Some in my Taste & Judgment class said no, some yes.

I was 12 when the attacks on 9/11 occurred, and everyone my age grew up way too fast after seeing it unfold. There are certain things you can't change, and times you can't go back to. One man's death doesn't change that fact.

Personally I think it is disgusting that people are so exctatic to see Osama dead. I am aware of how many people he has killed and how much suffering he has caused. But, its disturbing that people are celebrating this as a victory for America. I do not support any kind of celebration or unity of patriotism over killing someone even if they are a terrible person.

 I personally think he should have died a LONG time ago. I agree with ajgalfetti .

I'm glad that they respected the Muslim religion and I am glad that he's dead. It's not like we can bring back the thousands of  Americans who died on 9/11. It's not like we'll ever be able to forget what Bin Laden masterminded. Yes, it is possible that he was once a decent person, but when he died, he was not.

~Nyx

 I'm glad they respected his religion and buried him within 24 hours. That was... a very decent thing to do.

I'm glad the White House isn't releasing the photographs, for the time being.

 Why do we care so much about one mans death? Yes it means that person can no longer live out his dirt deeds, but we aren't free from all this. Fights will break out between people who want to take his place and chances are we will have to deal with this again. 

Am I happy Osama is gone? Maybe. Do I think everything will get better? Not a chance. This world is so screwed up as it is that nothing will ever go right. The troopes may be able to come home sooner, but that doesn't mean the middle east isn't going through hard times. The fact that they put his body in the sea was a good plan, but you can't stop people from building other shrines and places to worship him.

This cycle is never going to end, and eventually we may go through it once again. Maybe not in our life time, but somewhere in the future. Like people say "History repeats itself"  

My understanding is that Homo Sapiens is trying to kill each other. Why can't we all stop fighting, build a space rocket, and go to space. This way, our species survives, and we don't have lunatics like Bin Laden trying to kill everyone.

The point in life is to help Homo Sapiens survive. It isn't to protect certain beings and kill others.

  Osama Bin Laden died on May first, 2011. The CIA kept it secret until later, but it was announced soon after it happened.

     I am glad he is dead, people will feel much safer now that he is gone.  He  deserved his fate he killed thousands of people. The world will be much safer with him gone.

 Actually, the person I most agree with is raemerrill1294 .

So very true.

We retaliated with an eye for an eye, just like Muslim sharia law commands.  Fitting retribution for a man who was walking evil on this earth.  He twisted his religion to one big Fatwa on the West.  Believe this, he would not and did not honor anyone else's religion when he ordered their deaths, but being the Great Nation that we are, we did do the right thing by burying him according to his religion's dictates.  

As for this quote, "But the footage of Americans dancing in the streets, the maudlin interviews with 9/11 widows, the patriotic music and the litany of "God Bless America", as though this were somehow supernaturally ordained - this makes me think the "ugly American" stereotype isn't so far off. " - you have a lot of gall to call people celebrating Osama Bin Laden's death such.  His death was cause for celebration.  He deserved what he got and good thing that Mr. Obama did the right thing.  Perhaps you should look at all the celebrations held in the Muslim world when any American(s) is/are killed and call that what it is - disgusting, especially when it is usually innocent people whom they (the Muslims terrorists/extremists) target.  

God Bless America!

My whole feeling on this subject is in the middle. I was only three when the twin towers fell, so I did not feel the national shock in america, but this affected my country, so it affected me.  Yes, shouting and singing in the street does justify the "ugly american" stereotype, which for many of us is highly annoying, and my pacifisticside says that no one should ever celebrate the death of another,  but killing bin Laden was cathartic, and for one moment america heaved a collective sigh saying "phew".  Killing Osama bin Laden did not kill the war on terror, but it did kill Al Qaeda's leader and symbol.

It's not the fact that the U.S. killed him that is so shameful.

No, in that respect, we were in the right.

He was a criminal, a murderer. After years of searching for him, after wars fought over his location, he was found; in his apprehension he was killed. That is unfortunate, but we have avoided the issue of whether or not he should stand trial. There was a fire-fight and our brave soldiers defended themselves and attacked.

Sure, it's questionable whether there should have been some notification for the government of Pakistan. Sure, a unilateral attack only heightens the distaste towards American on the international front.

But the real shame is in the celebration. Osama was only a figure head; a terrible man further villianized by the media and for political clout. He is now dead, but this was only a victory of morale and justice. The fight against "terrorism" (although it's debatable whether one can fight a war against a military tactic) is not over. The war in Afghanistan is not over.

And the celebration in the streets? The singing? The drinking? How can we claim to remember the lives of the Americans we lost and pervert the tragedy of death so?

 It is fine to be glad he's dead, to be relieved he's dead. He was responsible for the death of thousands and quite frankly, he had it coming. It was going to happen at one time or another. 

The thing that isn't okay is the mass celebrations. This is not something to celebrate. While he was responsible for the death of thousands, he was someone's son, someone's father. Everyone is and death is not something to be celebrated. The actually death is not what disturbs me; it's the parties in the streets, the joyous Facebook posts. We have to remember that just because he's dead, the war is not over. Are our oil prices going to go down? No. Are we pulling out of Iraq entirely? No. Is airport security going to loosen? Hell no. Also, how much our country risked to kill one man. five thousand some odd Americans, half a million (yes, half a million) civilians in the Middle East, and a massive war. Was it worth it? 

So this will be the first time I have really committed my thoughts on this matter to paper and I waited so long for a reason.

Here's are my thoughts about a number of things,

TL;DR

It doesn't matter the reasons behind 9/11, what matters is the outcome, just like it doesn't actually matter that the man is dead, what matters is the outcome of his death. The outcome of 9/11 is that a lot of innocent people died and that it was used as hyper propaganda to kill more innocent people and bleed this country dry of its resources and make a very select group of people rich. The outcome of Bin Ladens death is that people are using it to distract themselves from economic downturn, two imperialistic wars, and inflation. People are using it to get back on their patriotism high horse and do the same things that we did post 9/11 caused our eyes to be to focused on how "great" America was and not focused on the things that our government was doing to reduce our freedom, exploit our interests, and put profit over people. While all of that is not very surprising, that's what happened, hopefully it does not happen again.

The man is a man, he represented an idea, and you can't kill an idea. Why celebrate?  His ideas post 9/11 were to wave his flag in some far off country and have the US army come in and drain our economy and humiliate us with our own efforts and foolish pride in ourselves, that is what he did, in that sense he won.

My thoughts on his death are that he was a murderer, and he is dead and that is fine by me.  But it is dangerous to jump back on the "god bless America train" because it makes people blind, people ask to see these pictures of him, why don't we show the American people all the pictures of the people we have killed over the past ten years, I bet you couldn't tell the difference.

One final thought that will make Grady happy, I do not think for a second his body was dumped into the ocean, it's in a crate in a warehouse next to the arc of the covenant.

So ends this lengthy response.

Granted, everyone, I am a bit older than all of you-- when I was your age, the event that shook our world was the Iranian Hostage Crisis, and we  were subjected to an endless parade of photos and videos of Americans paraded around blindfolded while people chanted "Death to America!" and burned effigies of people. I wondered why there was so much anger and who was this Allah guy everyone said was so great?  

1991 rolled around and my classmates headed off to the sandbox to liberate Kuwait (for oil of course) and I didn't understand the rage that some people had against America simply because we were on their soil, invited of course, to defend them against attack. That didn't make sense to me.

Then, after the Battle of Mogadishu (known as Black Hawk Down) I had to watch the naked body of dead American's dragged through the streets while people spit, kicked, and stabbed the body. That was someone's husband and father. Can you imagine what you would feel if that was your parent? We were there to support UN relief efforts to bring food to that country and this is what happened. Was it worth those lives to bring food to a group that would do that to someone else? 

Then, I heard that a cartoonist in Europe, Parker and Stone of "South Park" were threatened with death for simply showing a drawing of the prophet. That's a reason for death? a crude drawing? Really? Half my students would've been stoned to death under those rules.

Now, my friends come back from Afghanistan and Iraq with stories about what they've seen, culturally over there--honor killings, child molestation, graft, corruption, stonings and beatings for not following shar'ia rules-- can you imagine your uncle shooting either yourself or your sister simply because she or you  left the house unesorted? No going out of the house unless you were fully clothed, head to toe and escorted, no female friends, no malls, no cel phones? Being beaten because you didn't have a beard? Molested as a young boy by grown men while your parents did nothing? 

This is the world that Osama Bin Laden wanted for everyone-- not just the middle east but everywhere. I didn't celebrate, but did feel a sense of relief, and also a bit of gloating-- not because some SEAL double-tapped him but because the world he wanted is being roundly rejected by fellow Muslims across the Middle East. Suicide bombings are down, the youth of the region are using media to forment revolution and bring about representative government-- that's the worst thing that could happen to someone who fostered rage-- being rejected and having backs turned on him.

The Middle East will be a mess for a while-- but at least it will be a representative mess and not something imposed by one man or one ideology. People should have a right to screw things up themselves and now that's what's happening.

for the people who think he is not dead beaucse we wont show pics of him dead just think.... If a amarican in the war was shot would we like if they posted a bunch of dead pics..NO!!!

No death should be celebrated. period. I don't care what some american extremists think but eye for an eye is NOT what we should go by. That IS what the Ugly America goes by. All making smaller things like this do that are celebrated at this manner is stir more trouble. This was not even close to a huge feat for us because if not already somebody with about the same power if not more will take his positin and it will continue. he has had over a decade to plan this... of course he's taught others and found others to take his place in his death... and now they willjustbe angry and not any less powerful. I do think it is good we got him and he's no longer a threat but this celebration is rediculous!